The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, led by Chairman James Comr, has initiated a significant investigation into President Biden’s alleged mental and physical decline, the Biden White House’s efforts to hide that from the American people, and any unauthorized executive actions. The committee is considering legislative solutions to address these issues, including exercising its authority under the 25th Amendment to the Constitution. As part of this inquiry, the committee sought testimony from Anthony Bernal, initially requesting a voluntary interview on May 22, 2025, which Bernal’s counsel confirmed he would attend on June 26. However, Bernal later informed the committee he would not attend, leading Chairman Comr to issue a subpoena for his deposition.
During the deposition, Anthony Bernal repeatedly invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination when questioned on critical issues. He declined to state whether he ever advised President Joe Biden to pardon his son Hunter Biden. Furthermore, Bernal refused to answer if President Joe Biden was fit to exercise the duties of the president or if any unelected official or family member of President Joe Biden executed the duties of the presidency. He also declined to respond to whether President Joe Biden ever instructed him to lie regarding his health. The committee’s counsel repeatedly pressed Bernal, asking him to clarify if his refusal to answer was solely on the ground that he believed the answer would incriminate him, to which Bernal consistently invoked his Fifth Amendment rights. Bernal’s counsel explicitly stated that it was Bernal’s intention to decline to answer all questions on the basis of the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.
This consistent invocation of the Fifth Amendment by Mr. Bernal is viewed by the committee as a significant development, especially in the context of what Chairman Comr has already declared “the biggest scandal in Oval Office history” related to the alleged use of an autopen at the conclusion of President Biden’s term. The White House has directed the Department of Justice to open a criminal investigation into this matter, which the Chairman has acknowledged with interest.
President Trump has also publicly described the use of the autopen during the Biden administration as “treason at the highest level”, asserting that “Something very severe should happen to these treasonous thugs”. Bernal’s refusal to testify under these circumstances, particularly on matters of presidential fitness and unauthorized actions, suggests potential underlying wrongdoing or a cover-up from the Republican perspective, despite claims from Bernal’s counsel that President Biden has confirmed he personally made all clemency decisions.
WATCH: Oversight Committee Releases Anthony Bernal’s Deposition Video
WASHINGTON—The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform today released the video of Anthony Bernal’s deposition as part of the investigation of the cover-up of President Biden’s cognitive decline and unauthorized executive actions. Mr. Bernal pleaded the Fifth Amendment to all questions, including if any unelected official or family members executed the duties of the President and if Joe Biden ever instructed him to lie about his health.
Published: Jul 16, 2025
Here is a full transcript of what was discussed during the deposition of Anthony Bernal, drawing directly from the provided sources:
Deposition of Anthony Bernal, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
• Jake Greenberg: “we’ll go on the record This is a deposition of Anthony Bernol conducted by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform under the authority granted to it pursuant to House Rule 10 Accordingly House Rule 10 grants the committee broad jurisdiction for the committee to conduct investigations of any matter at any time The committee noticed today’s deposition on July 11th 2025 I will mark the notice for this deposition as exhibit one”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Thank you Can the witness please state his name and spell his last name for the record”.
• Anthony Bernal: “anthony Bernal B E R N A L”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Thank you My name is Jake Greenberg and I am the chief counsel for investigations for Chairman James Comr Under the Committee on Oversight and Government Reforms rules you are allowed to have counsel present to advise you during this deposition Do you have counsel representing you in a personal capacity present with you today”.
• Jake Greenberg: “will council please identify themselves for the record”.
• Jonathan Sue: “jonathan Sue on behalf of Mr Bernol”.
• Margaret Hines: “Margaret Hines of Mr”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Thank you For the record starting with the majority staff can the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name title and affiliation”.
• Margaret Harker: “margaret Harker senior adviser for the majority”.
• Mitch Benzine: “Mitch Benzine general counsel for the majority”.
• [Unidentified Staffer]: “senior professional staff for the majority”.
• Billy Grant: “Billy Grant council for the majority”.
• [Unidentified Staffer]: “professional staff member director for the majority in the minority”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Thank you all And the members in the room will you identify yourselves please”.
• James Comr: “james Cobber chairman House Oversight Committee”.
• Pete Sessions: “Uh Pete Sessions chairman government operations and federal workforce”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Thank you all In this Congress Chairman Comr initially requested a voluntary interview of Mr Bernol on May 22nd 2025 as part of the committee’s investigation into President Biden’s alleged mental and physical decline the Biden White House’s efforts to hide that from the American people and any unauthorized executive actions The committee is considering legislative solutions to address these issues including exercising its authority under the 25th amendment to the Constitution I will enter the initial request by Chairman Comr as exhibit two On June 6th 2025 council for Mr Bernal confirmed with the oversight committee that Mr Bernol would sit for a transcribed interview on June 26th On June 25th council for Mr Bernol informed the committee Mr Bernol would not attend the transcribed interview scheduled for the next day On June 26th Chairman Comr issued a subpoena for Mr Bernal to appear for this deposition I will mark both the subpoena and the accompanying cover letter to Mr Bernal as exhibit three”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Mr Bernal before we begin I would like to go over the ground rules for this deposition The questioning will proceed in rounds The majority will ask questions for an hour and then the minority will have an opportunity to ask questions for an hour if they choose To the extent members have questions for the witness they will be propounded during their sides respective rounds Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “can can you please speak up”.
• Jake Greenberg: “thank you The clock will stop if you need to confer with council your council is speaking and when members or staff are speaking during the opposing sides round of questions We will alternate back and forth until there are no more questions Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “there’s a court reporter taking down everything I say and everything you say to make a written record of the interview For the record to be clear please wait until the staffer questioning you finishes each question before you begin your answer And the staffer will wait until you finish your response before proceeding to the next question Further to ensure the court reporter can properly record this deposition please speak clearly concisely and slowly Also the court reporter cannot record non-verbal answers such as nodding or shaking your head So it is important that you answer each question with an audible verbal answer Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Exhibits may be entered into the record Majority exhibits will be identified numerically Minority exhibits will be identified alphabetically Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “We want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible So we will take our time If you have any questions or do not fully understand the question please let us know and we will attempt to clarify add context to or rephrase our questions Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “If we ask about specific conversations or events in the past and you are unable to recall the exact words or details you should testify to the substance of those conversations or events to the best of your recollection If you recall only a part of a conversation or event you should give us your best recollection of those events or parts of conversations that you do recall Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “You are required by law to answer questions from Congress Congress truthfully this also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in this deposition Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “If at any time you knowingly make false statements you could be subject to criminal prosecution including but not limited to perjury Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “This includes both knowingly providing false testimony but also stating that you do not recall or remember something when in fact you do Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Furthermore you cannot tell half-truths or exclude information necessary to make statements accurate You are required to provide all information that would make your response truthful A deliberate failure to disclose information can constitute a false statement Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful testimony in today’s interview”.
• Anthony Bernal: “no”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Please note that if you wish to assert a privilege over any statement today that assertion must comply with the rules of the committee on oversight and government reform Pursuant to that committee rule 16C1 states “For the chair to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements witnesses or entities must clearly state the specific privilege being asserted and the reason for the assertion on or before the scheduled date of testimony or appearance I will enter as exhibit 4 a letter dated June 24th 2025 to your council from Gary Lacowski deputy counsel to President Trump informing you that President Trump has determined not to assert executive privilege over issues regarding your assessment of former President Biden’s fitness for the office of the president and your knowledge of who exercised executive powers during his administration Additionally President Trump has determined that he will not assert immunity to preclude you from testimone testifying before the committee For the purposes of the deposition objections must be stated concisely and in a non-argumentative and non-suggestive manner If the witness refuses to answer a question to preserve a privilege uh the the committee may seek a ruling from the chair If the committee overrules any such objection the witness shall be ordered to answer If the witness continues to refuse to answer a question despite being ordered to do so the witness may be subject to sanction Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Ordinarily we take a five-minute break at the end of each hour of questioning But if you need a longer break or a break before that please let us know and we will be happy to accommodate However to the extent that there is a pending question we would ask that you finish answering the question before we take a break Do you understand”.
• Anthony Bernal: “yes”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Finally I will note for everyone here today that the contents of what we discuss in the deposition today is confidential under the House deposition regulations Under the rules the chairman and ranking minority member shall consult before any release of testimony or transcripts including portions thereof This means it is a violation of House and Committee rules to disclose content of the deposition prior to its official release For this reason the marked exhibits that we will use today will remain with the court reporter so they so they can go into the official transcript and any copies of those exhibits will be kept at the table for return to us when we wrap up Do you have any questions before we begin”.
• Anthony Bernal: “no”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Uh Jake I have a question Are we afforded the opportunity to make an opening statement”.
• Jake Greenberg: “no not today Can the reporter please swear in the witness”.
• [Court Reporter]: “sure Sir would you please raise your right hand to be sworn do you solemnly declare and affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you’re about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth”.
• Anthony Bernal: “i do”.
• [Court Reporter]: “Thank you All right Uh my clock reads 10:10 The majority’s hour will begin now Uh Mr Bernal did you ever advise President Joe Biden to pardon his son Hunter Biden”.
• Anthony Bernal: “on the advice of council I respectfully declined to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the Constitution”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Thank you We’re going to go off the record real quick Okay we’ll go back on the record Mr Bernol was President Joe Biden fit to exercise the duty du”.
• Anthony Bernal: “on the advice of council I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the Constitution”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Let the record reflect that Mr Bernol has invoke invoked the fifth amendment right against self-inccrimination Mr Bernal please be very clear Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe the answer will incriminate you”.
• Anthony Bernal: “on the advice of council I respectfully declined to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Mr Bernol did any unelected official or family member of President Joe Biden execute the duties of the presidency”.
• Anthony Bernal: “on the advice of council I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Let the record reflect that Mr Bernol has invoked the fifth amendment right against self-inccrimination Mr Bernol please be very clear Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe the answer will incriminate you”.
• Anthony Bernal: “on the advice of council I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Mr Bernal did President Joe Biden ever instruct you to lie regarding his health at any time including but not limited in your testimony to Congress today”.
• Anthony Bernal: “on the advice of council I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the Constitution”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Let the record reflect that Mr Bernol has invoked the fifth amendment right against self-inccrimination Mr Bernal please be very clear Are you declining to answer the question put to you solely on the ground that you believe the answer will incriminate you”.
• Anthony Bernal: “on the advice of council I respectfully decline to answer the question pursuant to my fifth amendment rights under the constitution”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Mr Bernol is it your intention to decline to answer all questions put to you today by the committee on the basis of the fifth amendment right against self-inccrimination”.
• Jonathan Sue: “i I can represent that that is his intention”.
• Jake Greenberg: “Thank you Does the minority wish to ask questions”.
• [Unidentified Staffer]: “yes we do Go off the record All right we’re back on the record Um with the members who just came into the room identify them”.
• [Unidentified Member]: “selves Starting with Mr Donald’s member of Congress Florida’s 19th and Jasmine Crockett Texas”.
• [Unidentified Member]: “Mr Bernol good morning Uh Mr Sue you weren’t afforded the opportunity to make a statement by the majority Would you like to make that statement now”.
• Jonathan Sue: “yes Thanks very much Uh Chairman Comr uh Ranking Member Garcia and members of the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability Mr Bernal appears before you today fulfilling his obligations to the committee An Arizona native Mr Bernal has served with distinction in three presidential administrations most recently as assistant to the president and chief of staff to the first lady Mr Bernal is rightfully proud of his service to the nation The committee has sought testimony from Mr Bernal for nearly two years without any actual evidence of wrongdoing by Mr Bernal Most recently the committee seeks Mr Bernal’s testimony based on a purported controversy regarding the use of the autopen at the conclusion of President Biden’s term President Biden has already confirmed that he personally made all decisions concerning his grants of clemency While the committee only recently began its autopen investigation the chairman has already declared that this matter is quote the biggest scandal in Oval Office history end quote In addition on June 4th 2025 the White House directed the Department of Justice to open a criminal investigation into this matter The chairman has acknowledged that quote US Attorney General Pam Bondi has announced an investigation at the Department of Justice so we’re very interested End quote Under these circumstances it is entirely appropriate and justified for Mr Bernal to invoke his rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution In Ohio v Reiner the US Supreme Court explained that one of the fifth amendment’s quote basic functions is to protect innocent men who otherwise might be ins snared by ambiguous circumstances end quote The record is also clear that persons of the full range of the political spectrum in recent and historical congressional investigations have invoked their fifth amendment rights to decline to answer questions from Congress Any suggestion that such an invocation is itself evidence of wrongdoing would be highly irresponsible and flatly wrong particularly from those elected to represent the people and uphold the constitution For these reasons Mr Mr Bernol respectfully declines to answer any of the committee’s questions today in today’s deposition and thank you for the opportunity to provide the statement I’m entering as exhibit A an April 1st 2025 New York Times article titled Trump allied prosecutor looks to undermine Biden pardons which describes a Justice Department investigation that quote uses the levers of federal law enforcement to try to harass Mr Biden’s family and allies and undermine his decisions as president while scoring political points with President Trump End quote I’m also going to mark as exhibit B a May 13th 2025 ABC News article titled Ed Martin Trump’s DOJ pardon attorney says he’ll review Biden’s outgoing pardons which quotes Mr Martin as saying that if the targets of his investigation quote can be charged we’ll charge them but if they can’t be charged we will name them and we will name them end quote Yep I’m also going to enter as exhibit C a May 20th 2025 truth social post by President Trump in which President Trump describes the use of the autopen during the Biden administration as quote treason at the highest level End quote And writes that quote “Something very severe should happen to these treasonous thugs.” End quote I’m also going to ask the court reporter to mark as exhibit D the majority’s letter to Mr Bernol sent two days later I’m Entering as exhibit E a presidential memorandum dated June 4th 2025 which among other things directs the council to the president in consultation with the attorney general to investigate the allegations that the majority has leveled in this matter I’m entering as exhibit F a June 5th 2025 NBC news story titled “Trump says he doesn’t have evidence of any illegal autopin use by the Biden White House And I’m entering as exhibit G a July 13th 2025 New York Times article titled “Biden says he made the clemency decisions that were recorded with autopen And I’m marking as exhibit H a redacted version of a July 15th 2025 NBC News article titled Lead Investigator into Biden’s use of an autopen signed letters with a digital signature This copy has been redacted to remove committee staff names”.
• [Unidentified Staffer]: “We’re off the record We’re on the record Mr Bernol considering your invocation of your fifth amendment right against self-inccrimination pursuant to the terms of the subpoena you are excused”.
• [Unidentified Staffer]: “We’ll go off the record”.
Sources: oversight.house.gov , TV503.com News